Methamphetamine synthesis from P2P by NaBH4 reduction. Medium-Scale.

[btcboss2022]

Hello,

After many tests using Methylamine HCL based on this method I will share the best way that I found to obtain Methamphetamine freebase in big scale:

• 966 gr P2P​
• 14 liters Methanol
• 1183 gr Methylamine HCL​
• 638gr NaOH​
• 452 gr Anhydrous Sodium Sulfate​
• 105 gr NaBH4​
• 35 L distilled water​
• 7 Liters DCM​

- Fill the reactor with the 14 L of Methanol
- With stirring dissolve the Methylamine HCL
- Put the reactor temp at 0C(not the mixture temp) and add the NaOH, the temp will increase
- Once the temp come back to 20C add the P2P, the temp will increase stir it during 45min-1 hour
- Add 252gr of anhydrous sodium sulfate
- When the mixture temp arrives to 8C start adding portionwise the NaBH4 not exceeding the 20C
- Once all the NaBH4 has been added let it mixing under 20C during aprox 2 hours until the mixture stops bubbling
- Add the water and continue mixing during 5 min
- Add the DCM and mix it during 10 min
- Stop stirring and let layers get separated
- Keep the bottom layer and discard the upper one( not profitable to extract this aqueous phase)
- Add 200gr of anhydrous sodium sulfate to the saved layer and mix it
- Filter it in Buchner Funnel
- Evaporate the DCM
- Clean and smelly Methamphetamine freebase obtained

;-)

 

[Ortist]

Hello! Is there any reason why you use 17.6mol of methylamine.hcl versus 15.9 mol of NaOH? Another question is: don't you think that amount of drying agent is a bit small? There are alot of water produced in this setup. Just wondering

 

[Lordoftheshard 2]

Im.gking to be quiet honest and Frank here have any if you tried the product this makes strength wise iits fucken shit yrs you make a product but it does nothing not only me 4 other people said the same thing after producing product for the last 20 years I'm going to tell you all straight unless your reaction has a metal in it don't bother it's the metals that what give the product it's strength leg lithium bitch iodine hypophos/rp p2p aluminium amalgam your reaction has to be one of these else your just waisting time effort and money on producing shit
I'm not having a go at any one I'm just stating the facts thanks to btc bioss keep up the good work I'm going to try and find another method of yours that has metal in so I don't throw this p2p down the toilet all these methods without metal in them are to ifucken.us3l3ss

 

[Macondor]

To the MDMA synth happen something similar?
Start from PMK glycidate and reduce with NaBH4 can make lees potent MDMA?
Start from piperonal and reduce with amalgam wil be better or start from PMK glycidate and reduce with amalgam?
please i want to make the best product for myself..i tired of buy shit for consume. yeasr ago..there was a really nice MD stuff...now is shitty shitty

 

[Lordoftheshard 2]

Thank you for your reply and backing me up in the fact sodium borohydride makes shit gear simple as that yrs it's a reducing agent bit unless the reaction has some form of metal in in forget about getting strong product and I stand but what I believe wth over 30yearx experience in the game
And b
Another thing I swear buy and all the people on here have to start facing p2p poverty pack meth cannot and will not compeate with meth made but pseudo or ephedrine birch route and hypo route simple as that
I test everything I have to make sure there is no problems and quality control I only make the best product and make sure it's the best product before it leaves me I don't want to hear bullshit about my product so that why it has to be tested before it goes so people can't pull there bullshit Scans saying the product was shit and I have rep to keep and take pride in what I produce

 

[btcboss2022]

Strangely with MDMA is totally the opposite, of all synth I did of MDMA the NaBH4 reduction give more potent product.
I can't explain why because I don't know exactly but I'm practically sure that all is about enantiomers resolution, in that case MDMA is totally racemic no resolution applied. Seems(not sure only based in experience) that NaBH4 is good to obtain good racemic products but not good route if later needs to make a resolution like meth for example.

 

[Woodshack]

Thank-you for your knowledge BTCBOSS! <3

 

[btcboss2022]

Is impossible to discuss something when the main thing are "facts" based on personal feelings without any chemical or scientific argument.
Is very easy to understand pure MDMA is pure MDMA and pure D-Meth is pure D-meth if you obtain the pure product it's a unique compound with a unique molecule structure.

D-Meth

MDMA

If you have these pure and isolated molecules no matter the route you used with metal, without metal even with magical techniques...won't be any difference should be exactly the same.
About strength only could change about impurities(pure product concentration not enough isolated) or enantiomers separation(in that case won't be the exact molecule of the pic)
I can put in your hands 10 samples of pure product obtained with different routes and you never will know the route used on each, won't be distinguishable.

Easy example pure technical distilled H2O is pure H2O you won't know the technique used to get it you just have H2O.

With this I don't want to change your mind or your feelings when you use the product, I'm just explaining contrasted and real facts that could be shown to anybody anywhere with the same results.

Thanks.

 

[diogenes]

Why don`t you run a TLC for the two products (pseudo & NaBH4 - meth)? If it is the same molecule then perhaps the resolution is not right. Pseudo gives 100% D-meth, from P2P it is difficult to get close to that purity (and impossible to reach it).

It would be great to get to the bottom of this question. On one hand if it is the same molecule (as btcboss said) it should be equally effective, on the other hand I am sure the reports of lack of effect are also true, so we have an important question to solve. I don`t have access to pseudo unfortunately (and cannot be bothered to extract from cough medication), but if I did I would try to figure this out.

Has anyone tried the effectiveness of Al/Hg product? Is Al/Hg better to reduce P2P because a metal is involved in it?

 

[btcboss2022]

The unique real explanation only could be related with resolution never with final stuff obtained, I will do Al/Hg and check.

 

[Lordoftheshard 2]

I already know tht answer the p2p cannot complete with a pseudo or ephedrine synth One the optical purity 90%for pseudo and ephedrine where p2p highest is 74%and then the isomer factor dmeth no resolution bullshit that pseudo and ephedrine makes the p2p cant compeate it's like going to a fight with one of your arms tied behind behind your back

 

[diogenes]

Lordoftheshard, the optical purity for pseudo/ephedrine derived meth is 100% D-meth (ephedrine and pseudoephedrine are isomers of each other. The molecule has got 2 stereocenters and ephedrine and pseudoephedrine differ in one of the stereocenters, the other one is the same, and this latter one continues to be present in D-meth.

Look at this picture:

Not suprisingly only the molecules on the left possess pharmacological effect, - Ephedrine and +pseudoephedrine, these are the ones sold in pharmacies as ephedine/pseudoephedrine. The ones on the right have no effect.
These two only differ in the position of the hydroxyl group, which is reduced to H when converting to methamphetamine, so they become the same ie. D-meth (100% D isomer)

There are resolution techniques to reach far beyond 90+ purity resolving the racemic mixtrure of D/L methamphetamine, derived from P2P, but it is not so easy.

The original question refers to an alleged lack of effectiveness of methamphetamine when reduced by NaBH4.

 

[btcboss2022]

Hello,

I checked leuckart route for Meth and later D-meth with tartaric and I can confirm that NaBH4 route has a particularity(I don't know what yet), this route give a Meth that is more difficult to isolate the D-Meth I don't know the reason but about this the "D-Meth" from NaBH4 route seems less effective.
Still don't have any sense for me but it's a fact checked myself.
I must try now cold way with methanol and methylamine but instead use NaBH4 as reducing agent I will use an aluminum amalgam and update you.
I hope this info helps.

 

[w2x3f5]

I did meth on sodium borohydride, no problems arose when separating with d-tartaric acid in ethyl alcohol. The D-isomer crystallized, the L-isomer remained in the form of a thick oil after distillation of the alcohol. Unfortunately, I did not measure the angle of rotation.

 

[btcboss2022]

Sorry if my post wasn't enough clear, I wasn't referring to problems with resolution or crystallization.
I did large amounts of meth throw NaBH4 route without any problem during last year, is an effect issue.
I know that Meth is Meth in fact I posted many times that it wasn't possible that should be impurities issue or similar but is not.
I decided to check it and from the same P2P batch I did D-Meth from NaBH4 route like always and I did D-Meth too from Leuckart route, both using same resolution process, purification, crystallization...both seems identical lab report from each gives 96-97% but the effect is not the same.
The effect from NaBH4 route is shorter and weaker than Leuckart route the unique chemical explanation is the isomer resolution by a reason that I still don't know(but I will know hahah) seems to be less effective in the Meth from NaBH4 route.
Is a strange situation for me because Meth is Meth but I can't deny a fact checked by myself.
Thanks.

 

[Lordoftheshard 2]

I wouldn't come in here and look like an idiot if what I'm claiming isn't true even Hank said this earlier in thread meth is suppose to be meth the molecule but this isn't the case the way it's made has everything to do with outcome at the end I'm no scientist nut I like ti use basics and simplify things so I thought how in my past 30years of this shit what was the best product I have had how was its made the synth all has metal in them
From a real world standing point people can claim the science and so forth.but I'm telling everyone p2p meth cannot compeateb meth made from pseudo it ephedrine I dispize meth made from p2p and call it poverty pack meth and I have been there from the start threw the 90's till today so I have seen the evolution of meth and no one can tell me different I've got the runs on the board
Why did you think the meth is shit these days cause it's all made from p2p simple as that since the dea put the clamp on pseudo and ephedrine meth has gone.to shit
I see all the imported product coming into Australia were I'm from it's either Asian tea brand meth eg gold tea green.tea etc or Mexican product some batches from.europe to the commons denominator it's all made from p2p and how to do get fat and go to sleep on meth.unless I maje product from pseudo its the only time I get high and same from the imported product I no straight away buy looking at the product the sampking.when it's made from pseudo I call the P2P meth an expensive cigarettes because it does nothing you can smoke o.5 of a gram the you eat and go to sleep wtf is that bullshit I used to but half a gram iof real product on a Friday night and shout the whole word abs still come home with 2points in my pocket on Monday like I say how di you get fat and go to sleep on gear if it's real product this will not happen cause the product being put out there these days us a concoction no tlc or quality it's all about maximizing dollars the Asian a Mexican producers are greedy scum there making fir nothing and still have ti cut the product with n-iso
The last uf the real meth was 2007 since then theve befn.olsyimg the games with different cutters and so forth and the best product for meth and trans 4nethylamunirex came from north Korea then they started counterfeiting us 100 dollar bills instead of making meth fir the nuclear program

 

[btcboss2022]

I will fix some pseudo and check it too thanks for your info.

 

[Lordoftheshard 2]

Which route you going you use to synthesize the pseudo

 

[btcboss2022]

Hypo route for pseduo but I will compare with cold method like always but instead NaBH4 I will use aluminum amalgam as reducing agent.

 

[Lordoftheshard 2]

With Mercury chloride I was going to do the hot method the all in one flask equal parts p2p and aluminum amalgam and reflux for 2 hours but instead of extracting the freebase I was going to ad dry naoh to the rx the n external steam distillation on the fb saves having to do a vacuum distillation the separating the fb from the naoh water in a sep funnel resolution of the fb with l tartaric I'm thinking of buying d tartaric and doing it both ways to see which one come out better

 

[madafaka]

Hello guys,

I have all the things needed for NaBHr4 reduction of p2p.I just wanted to ask this question.At the end of synthesis you are left with dcm+freebase, can i just get rid off dcm by evaporating it (distilling it off) and then mix freebase with acetone and add hydrochloric acid?until ph 7 and evaporate to make hcl salt?I have only hcl with water (hydrochloric acid) and i so not have sulfuric acid at the moment for hcl gas generator.Can i just do it as i described?

 

[Tweaker]

Why do volumes of water and solvent seem so high? A 100L reactor can only produce 1kg? I'm doing a similar reaction with MDMA and am able to produce a lot more.

 

[Tweaker]

Can you use mol sieves for drying?

 

[Ortist]

yes