A (mostly) kitchen friendly synthesis of 2c-b

malesh67482

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Hi @Swirly! Great write up!

  1. For re-x of the nitrostyrene, is plain methanol recommended?
  2. Are you advising against using oxalic acid for the clean up after the reduction?
 

Swirly

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1. For 2,5-dimethoxynitrostyrene use plain methanol, for 3,4,5-trimethoxynitrostyrene use IPA.
2. I believe that there are more disadvantages to oxalate than advantages, the major advantage is that it does make for a very clean final product. The disadvantage is that yields seem to suffer.
For both 2-h and mescaline, next time I would make the sulfate and then convert to HCl.

I had both my 2c-b and mescaline tested at kykeon and both are totally pure. I made my last mescaline with the oxalate step and it is a white batch instead of my older yellow ones where I made HCl then did an A/B to another HCl.

LIke I wrote maybe you will include the oxalate and do it better than me, yields won't suffer.
 

Rabidreject

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Really? That’s interesting. When I made mescaline it was totally glimmering white, iv heard others say similar to you though.
I am wondering if its because I have a propensity towards making sulfate salts as opposed to HCl?

In fact everything iv reduced using the NaBH4/ copper method has come out bright white and all been sulfate 🤷‍♂️

Shouldn’t really make a difference but I dunno.
I did make some slightly off white stuff the first time, because when I removed the IPA I was left with like a black nasty colour but then I figured out if I properly purified my nitroalkene the organic layer was a beautiful straw Color.
 

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Yes, I have not made the sulfate yet, but next time I sure will. But not as the final product, final product will be HCl.
 

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Can I ask why that is? Why not the sulfate salt as final? Simply the difference in weight?
 

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Oh also how about the in situ bromination using NaBr?
I get that NBS is like a really easy way of brominating but it involves me buying extra stuff I potentially don’t need lol

Also I figure if it’s this easy to brominate 2c-h would it potentially be just as easy to iodinate it using iodine crystals and H2O2 in an acidic environment? Something I want to try…
 

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I found I got pretty good yields using this technique for the 3,4,5-aldehyde as well... At first I was getting this weird ‘cottage-cheese’ looking by product but I was just adding too much EDA. Purity was fantastic though, without even doing a re-x I ended up getting 70-75% yields on the next part. This was obviously not on large scale though, a tenth or so of what u did here so yeah maybe you would lose a lot of yield at scale (I dunno I don’t do bulk)
I am waiting for more borohydride to come and it’s annoying me - I wish I hadn’t reduced the md-p2np I last did as I would have been able to do this instead and I actually take 2c-b, as opposed to the md compounds which was curiosity 🤷‍♂️
 

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I’m confused.
Iv done the reduction reaction on 3 or 4 different nitroalkene’s now and the reaction has been great every time.
This time, when I got to salting it out - nothing happened and it neutralised really quick ☹️
I’m a little confused.
At the end of the reaction the organic layer separated nicely so I added a little more base and separated and all that bollocks.
I had some issues with solubility when I tried to salt MDA directly out of isopropyl so I evaporated most of the iso and topped up with acetone and proceeded to salt using sulfuric and nothing crashed out. Then it just neutralised really quickly as well.

The nitrostyrene I was reducing looked like it was really nice quuality so I’m really confused…

QDjydvhcoF
 

Rabidreject

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Oh and I used a 7.5 mol eq of NaBH4 and a 0.1 mol eq of CuCl2.

It’s just weird because usually when a reaction goes wrong there is some sort of sign that it’s behaving strangely before the salting bit.

Guess I’ll try it again
 

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Hmm I find myself wondering if the freebase crashed out of the isopropyl whilst I was evaporating it and then wouldn’t re dissolve in the acetone. Think maybe that might be the case.
 

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Oh okay you can basically forget all that! Ha
I stuck it in the freezer and had nice fallout.

I guess 2c-h sulfate is significantly more soluble in acetone than other compounds I have worked with thus far. Interesting
 

Swirly

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Don't use acetone, use ethyl acetate!
 

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Yeah I clocked that in the end funnily enough. Ended up using ethyl acetate in the end anyway, or was that for the 2c-b salting I ended up doing. F knows. Either way I would use it in future for both these.
Mescaline works really well with acetone though which is why it was my go to at first.
 

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Man I swear every time you do a reaction you learn something new. Even if it’s the same reaction with a differing reagent…

I love it
 

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I don’t actually even really like 2c-b so I ended up buying succinimide and then synthesising NBS from it for no reason really - I just used bromine for the bromination of 2c-h and don’t really need more than the gram and a bit I have so decided to just save the rest of the 2c-h and the 2,5-DMONS for when my I2/ silver nitrate comes. 🤷‍♂️
 

Swirly

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Took me a while to come back but I tried the reaction once dry (without water). Used a reduced amount of NaBH4 and silica gel beds mixed with an 8x of IPA only. Did not seem to reduce the NS fully and when I dropped in the copper probably used too much heat and burned most of the product.

However I soon did a more traditional run and had a very good yield all the way to 2C-B HCl. Here is the experiment:
 

Swirly

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Along with the improved NBS bromination, here is an improvement to the NaBH4/ CuCl2 reduction. Scale is about 100 g, but this should work well even at 200 g+ in a 10L 3-neck flask:

1) Will use about 13 x of liquid to the 2,5-Dimethoxynitrostyrene amount. Start with 91.5 g or 0.437 mol. of once recrystallized nitrosyrene, they are those distinctive orange hairs, but not entirely pure. A mixed bag.

2) Plan to use a total of 7.5 mol. eq. of NaBH4 or 3.278 mol or about 120g NaBH4 in total. But 100 g to dissolve now and 20g to leave out before addition of CuCl2.

3) Into a 6 L 3-neck flask pour 550 mL dH2O and 700 mL IPA. The proportion is not 1:1 water, IPA. But it is much more water, the borohydride still dissolves, and we end up working with a more convenient smaller IPA layer than the usual 2:1.

4) It is better to cool everything before adding the NaBH4. Use a bucket with salt-ice-water cooling or even a large glass dish. Ice water cooling is entirely sufficient at this scale.

5)
Add 100 g of finely crushed NaBH4, as the vessel had not cooled sufficiently it starts reacting with the water. Eventually I cool it down to about 8° C and only then begin addition of the nitrostyrene with overhead stirring at 220 RPM.

6)
In intervals between 3 to 5 spoonful additions prepare a 0.2 mol. eq. of CuCl2·2H2O or 0.0874 mol or 14.9 g. This is a much much larger amount than the usual 0.1 mol eq. Why not use more? Dissolve in a minimum amount of 50% IPA. Or about 30 mL IPA + 30 mL dH2O. The copper chloride dissolves better in water than in IPA.

7)
Addition of the nitrostyrene takes about 1 hour. Temperature does not rise above 18 ° C. There is foaming present, but large additions of ice, and overhead stirring work well to keep everything in check. The orange hairs disappear, left with a mostly white milky layer. Pour in an additional 50 mL IPA used for cleaning the sides of the flask.

8) Out of the 20 g additional NaBH4 add a total of 18 g and leave it to spin at room temp, for an additional 50 min having removed the cooling bathe.

9) Set the flask on a heating mantle.

10)
Use a 20 mL pipette to draw up the CuCl2 and squirt deep into the vortex almost in the liquid layer. A long and large 50 mL or 100 mL glass pipette would be even better. The pipette works wonders, helps to reach deep into the vessel and you can totally control the reaction this way.

The reaction is still violent, lots of smoke is produced that wooshes out of the open neck. So wear a glove on the pipetting hand. Just make sure the reaction is energetic as can be without spilling over. The pipette lets you control everything and if you pipette out as close to the surface of the liquid as possible near the vortex, splashes are also reduced this way.

Maybe with two quick squeezes pour in the CuCl2. Nothing is spilled, the heating mantle is not destroyed. As well as there is a lot of flammable H2 produced at this point, make sure no sources of sparks or flames are in the vicinity of outlets.

11)
Place a large condenser on one of the necks, a 600 mm Allihn with cold water flowing. Turn on the heat to maybe 140 C. The IPA really starts to boil, and the condenser can’t deal with all of it, but it helps a great deal. Most of the IPA condenses and falls back, it really boils at a quick rate initially. If done correctly not that much IPA boils off.
If going for a larger scale, a 200 g reaction, I would use 2 Allihn condensers of an equal size.

Stirring speed is increased at this point, to about 350 RPM, but watch the temperature closely, and make sure nothing boils over.

12)
Once the initial thrashing and violent boiling settles down, temps have stabilized, reflux at a max of 78 ° C for 45 min. About 3 drops/ second at reflux.

13) Remove from heat, you can stop stirring, and let the reaction cool down a bit to about 50 ° C. Pour your reaction layer into a more convenient beaker and filter the copper floating on the bottom of the upper (IPA) layer. Filter twice over a large Büchner funnel with medium filter paper. A small amount of black copper particles remain, it is not a big deal.

14)
Now pour the still warm reaction mixture into a 2 L sep. funnel. The bottom, water layer goes into one beaker, the top, IPA layer goes into another beaker. Have about 900 mL of the IPA layer which is cloudy. But most importantly the colour is only a light yellow. It is not golden, it is not brown it is not black. Cloudy with a light yellow. Looks very good.

15) Most of the goods are in the IPA but I go for max effort and with fresh IPA extract twice from the aqueous layer. 100 mL and 50 mL IPA. The aq. layer has a bunch of dissolved borates. But if we do all of the work in the sep. funnel and filter while everything is warm borates shouldn’t crash out.

16)
Now have a combined amount of about 1100 mL of the IPA. Discard the aq. layer.

17)
Wash + dry in a sep. funnel 2x with K2CO3 brine. Wash volume is about 20% of the IPA layer. Combine 120 g K2CO3 with 110 mL dH2O for 220 mL of the brine.

18) Wash + dry with 15 g MgSO4 but I believe this is too much layer was mostly dry. Still the layer after the MgSO4 was cloudy.

19)
Gravity filter over medium speed filter paper folded into a flute directly into a 2 L one neck flask. Now the layer goes crystal clear, and has a light colour. (Shame I didn’t take a picture). Its pH is 11.2.

20) Distill off most of the IPA under vacuum. Do not have a good vac source so goes slowly. Distills at 36 – 38 ° C. Stop distillation as it is taking too long, have about 200 mL of the IPA layer left.

Now other options should be explored for getting the 2C-H. I have tried making the sulfate and that seems to work, but that was from a dirty IPA layer. So can not tell just how well. The acetate of 2C-H might precipitate directly from the IPA layer as well.

If one has a very good vacuum source you can dry distilling off the IPA, and then vacuum distilling off the amine.

21)
I go for HCl this time, the safe way, no oxalate fuckery. Calculate the HCl amount. If a starting amount of 0.437 mol. estimate for roughly 80% or 0.35 mol or 30 mL of 36% conc. HCl. Dilute this to 100 mL, but this is too much, can dilute to 60 mL as well. Transfer the IPA to a pyrex plate.

22)
Separate a portion of the IPA in case of over-acidification. Start pouring in the HCl and use all, actually use just a bit extra. Could indicate that the yield is more than 80%. Final pH is 6.6.

23)
Evaporate off the remaining IPA with mild heating, continue evaporating off the water until a thick paste is formed. Leave to fan dry.

24) Wash the dirty yellow - orange 2C-H HCl with cold ethyl acetate in a Büchner funnel mixing well, filter. The EtOAc seems to help carry off remaining water. Leave to fan dry. The yield of 2C-H HCl from the reaction mixture is 76.432 g. Mol. wt. of 2c-h HCl is 217.693 g so I have 0.351 mol or a yield of 80% from the nitrostyrene. A very very good initial yield of some fair looking 2C-H, but it still needs to be cleaned further.

25)
Will preform an A/B extract. Basify with KOH (can use NaOH as well). Use a bit of a mol. extra so use 0.368 mol KOH or 20.68 g dissolved in 100 mL dH2O.

26)
Mix the 2C-H with 700 mL dH20 in a 2 L beaker with magnetic stirring. It does not fully dissolve, but that is ok, when we basify it will dissolve. Add the hydroxide until a pH of 11.5. Now have 800 mL of the aq. Layer with the freebase floating around.

27) Pick up the 2C-H freebase with DCM in a 2 L sep. funnel. Extract 3 x using 150 mL, 100 mL, and 50 mL DCM.

28) Now I believe I made a mistake here and could have tried adding conc. HCl. directly to the DCM with strong mixing. Then attempt to pick that 2C-H HCl with water? Or at least tried. If I end up with not much 2C-H product, can just evaporate the DCM.

Another option might be to add GAA (AcOH) to make 2C-H acetate. That will form from the DCM directly.
The problem with the HCl is that it is aq. And that in theory doesn’t mix well with DCM.

29) Decide to evaporate off the DCM in a pyrex dish on a hotplate with mild heating (in a fume hood). When most of the DCM is gone the 2C-H freebase will start converting to the carbonate salt from contact with air. Not a problem.

30) Once again prepare 30 mL of conc. HCl that I dilute a bit to 50 mL. Leave a portion of the watery carbonate layer out in case of an overshoot. Add the HCl until a good pH (mid 6s).

31) Evaporate most of the water and clean with cold EtOAC, suck with a vacuum, also clean with acetone but that seems to carry off product away (just like with 2C-B). Makes for a whiter product however.

32) After the A/B extract I have a final 61.423 g 2C-H HCl, so a yield on the A/B of 80%, or 65% from the initial nitrostyrene. Could have been borates in the crude 2C-H, or maybe I still don’t know how to do a proper A/B or the acetone carried product away.

Final stuff looks pretty good. Not totally white but this crème colour. Fine powder with some chunks. Good enough to make 2C-C, 2C-I, or 2C-B.

Some key take-aways:
  • Can use less than 13x of liquid, maybe even go less to 10x combined IPA + water (eg. try a reaction with 200 g nitrostyrene and 2000 mL combined IPA + water in a 10 L 3 neck flask.)
  • Can use less than a 7.5 x eq of NaBH4
    The large pipette helps so much in controlling the copper reaction, way safer than pouring directly into the neck.
  • Effective cooling with 2x large Allihn condensers helps prevent loss of IPA (can use less liquid without borates crashing out).
  • After addition of copper make sure to not heat your mantle too much. Keep temp. at or a bit below 78 ° C. If it heats up too much the whole IPA layer will darken and yields possibly reduced.
  • Filter and separate layers while everything is still warm.
  • Ideal scenario would be effectively vacuum distilling off the IPA then increasing heat and vacuum distilling the 2C-H freebase.
  • Salting with HCl works well also no need for oxalate, just takes a bit more work.
Sorry but took no pictures this around. Key thing to look for is the colour of the IPA layer post reaction, if it is cloudy and a light yellow but not a dark yellow then it is good.
 

Swirly

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And out of a portion of this 2C-H, 2C-B was made:
2c-h HCl bromination with NBS. Decided to play it safe, and it sort of payed off.

From 2C-H HCl that was A/B'ed from 2C-H HCl (previous post), but not 100% clean:

1) To a 1 L beaker set on a hotplate with magnetic stirring add 55.28 g 2C-H HCl (0.254 mol). Will use a 1.2 x mol. eq. of NBS or 0.305 mol or 54.23 g. Decide to use slightly less, 54.094 g. NBS was not recrystallized, was old and had colour.
2) Dissolve the 2c-h HCl in about 10x of GAA (ACoH) or 550 mL. Slow to dissolve, but made sure to get almost all of the 2c-h to dissolve.
3) Add the NBS, but I add in portions, maybe a 1/4 - 1/3 at a time, stir a bit until most of the NBS is dissolved, and then add more. Colour changes quickly, before the last addition of NBS the colour is a darker red. Make sure that all of the NBS or succinimide is dissolved before 2c-b starts forming.
4) Heat to 40 - 50 °C. The 2c-b precipitates out fairly quickly, but with the slightly larger proportion of GAA, it should not seize up, spinning is free. Continue spinning under mild heat for an hour.
5) Filter on a Büchner funnel. With the vacuum turned off in the Büchi, mix thoroughly with cold EtOAc. Wash a few times. Set aside the mother liquor.
6) Reset the vacuum flask, and continue washing and filteringc but now with a prepared 10% sodium thiosulfate solution. This makes the 2C-B very white. Doesn't seem to dissolve the 2c-b either. At this point I should have washed with plain water, as the sodium thiosulfate leaves a smell. Had run out of both distilled water and EtOAc by now. Discard the aq. washes.
7) Let the mother liquor sit at room temperature, but I later transfer to a fridge overnight. Don't know if freezing helps to speed up 2c-b to precipitate.
8 ) Fan dry the first crop but the sodium thiosulfate smell lingers.
9) In the morning take the mother liquor from the fridge but it is frozen as it is mostly GAA, takes a long time to thaw so set on a hotplate to speed up the process. Can see that there is quite a lot of product that has fallen out. Maybe it is not all 2c-b but also some succinimide? Succinimide dissolves somewhat in water (23g succinimide/ 100g water (20°C)) but does it dissolve in GAA or EtOAc?
10) The second crop I wash with 10% sodium thiosulphate solution and acetone. Again, mixing thoroughly. Discard mother liquor.

From the first crop there is about 49.788 g, from the second about: 13.78 g (forgot the first crop weight in my excitement but the total is correct): 63.568 g or 0.215 mol. The mol. wt. of 2C-B HCl is 296.59 g/ mol so this makes for a 84% yield. The 2c-b might just be a bit damp, but the yield is fantastic. The second crop has this ghost whiteness, but the first is also very white.

As there is an anthill of 2C-B, I do not hesitate to carry out an A/B extract by way of the acetate salt. Dubbed "à la Shulgin".

1) Under magnetic stirring try and dissolve the 2c-b HCl in 800 mL dH2O, but remember 2C-B HCl is rather insoluble in water, while 2C-B HBr and 2C-B Acetate are soluble. Doesn't dissolve.
2) Prepare a 20% NaOH sol. Use a 1.05x excess. About 0.2247 mol or about 9 g NaOH in 55 mL water.
3) Add more water to the 2c-b, suspend it in 1 L hochwasser.
4) Now with spinning add the NaOH and plain water to help the 2c-b HCl dissolve. At ph 12.4 and 1450 mL wasser most of the 2c-b HCl dissolves. Leave just a few stubborn bits. The 2c-b freebase is a yellow-greenish oil on the bottom of the beaker.
5) Extract in a 2 L sep. funnel with DCM. Use 250 mL, 150 mL, 50 mL. Run out of DCM as well.
6) Treat the combined DCM with a 1.2 mol eq. of GAA. 14.124 g or about 13.8 mL. First the cloudy DCM layer goes totally clear, then the 2c-b acetate precipates out. Add a bit more GAA as pH is not falling (but then again no water in layer, so made a mistake here, no more GAA was needed).
7) Now I made a mistake here. Believe it would have been better to just filter the 2c-b acetate and separate from the DCM with possibly some impurities. So it would have been first the water, then the DCM that would leave behind impurities.
8 ) Instead on a pyrex plate evaporate off the DCM with fan drying, and eventually from the green sludge some very nice sparkly crystals appear. Whitish light yellow-green.
9) When the crystals are mostly dry add dH2O directly to the plate. Carefully add just enough dH2O to dissolve the crystals. Use maybe about 250 mL.
10) Pour conc. HCl directly into the plate. Calculate for a 1.05 mol. eq. or 0.2247 mol. HCl or 19.3 mL. Very dramatically large columns of 2c-b HCl form as the acid hits the water. Toss and turn the plate around but the HCl salt forms instantaneously. pH drops to 1.2 or something like that, so it was too much HCl.
11) Wash this 2c-b HCl first with dH2O and then with acetone (still didn't have EtOAc) and I really believe the acetone could have carried away some product.
12) Fan dry, and end up with only 35.7 g of a light crème coloured 2C-B. This 2C-B is not pure white, but slightly off-white. However it does seem purer. Maybe if I had removed the DCM and washed better with a larger amount of EtOAc would have gotten a white product.

The product looks very good, actually better than the white stuff as it is all a fluffy homogenous mass after milling. Rather similar to Benignium's anhydrous 2C-B HCl. So maybe this is the actual colour of pure 2c-b?

Something killed the yield however. Did the basic water carry off a large portions? The water was murky indeed. Was it succinimide in the water?
However, these are the positive points to remember for NBS bromination:

  • Use a larger GAA amount to aid with stirring, 10x or 11x the 2c-h HCl amount. Not 8x.
  • Don't need a 1.2 mol. eq. of NBS. Think 1.05 - 1.1 is enough.
  • Maybe mild heating and some time spinning helps with the yield.
  • Could be adding the NBS in portions and waiting for it to dissolve helps as well?
  • Recover the second crop by pouring in (and washing with) EtOAc.
What do you think guys?
 

Swirly

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Something to also try is to prepare anhydrous HCl in IPA beforehand and pour directly into the IPA from the reaction. 2C-H HCl should fall out and that would safe you from quite a bit of work. 2C-H HCl should be insoluble in IPA. This is something to be pursued in the future.
 

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Awesome, thanks for keeping us updated and doing the research, bro
I got a couple questions, and I already forgot a couple.
Safety questions...
Are 2,5 and 3,4,5 dmb sensitive to degradation due to time/temp? What about 3,4-mdp2np? Should any of these bee kept in the freezer?
I know diethyl ether needs to be kept in the fridge, what about
Can nitromethane, heptane, ethyl acetate, etc bee kept in a garage, that gets what ever temp it is outside? Or does it need to bee kept in air conditioning?

Okay, I don't want to go back or I'll lose what I'm writing, but when it says to use 1.5 molar equivalent, but then says 1.1 moles, this is confusing, but I know it is in relation to something...can anyone give me a link so I can read about it.
 
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